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  #21  
Old 01-13-2011, 01:52 PM
KR4myF2AS KR4myF2AS is offline
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Default Dwayne's K-14 line

You may want to have a quick look at Dwayne's Web page before you send in any of your KR for processing. That is, unless of course you have one of the new "negative slide viewers."
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  #22  
Old 01-13-2011, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by e-person View Post
I live in Italy and own about 20 rolls of KR 64 24 exposures. Never sold one, I usually buy, not sell.

But since you all seem so interested, I am willing to trade on a one to one basis, for something fine grain like Portra 160, or 400, or Ektar, which I can self develop.

This week end I'll probably try to shoot five rolls and then send them to Dwayne's, hoping they'll add them to the queue, but certainly can't shoot all of it. Too much.

Giuseppe
I'm afraid you've joined the party too late, my friend. If you did not have your KR-64 shot and at Dwayne's by the morning of December 30th, it will not be added to the queue. Save yourself the trouble of shooting photos you'll never see and save Dwayne's the trouble of sending it back to you undeveloped. They are already busy enough.
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  #23  
Old 01-14-2011, 12:27 AM
d235j d235j is offline
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It would probably be best to save the rolls and freeze them; perhaps Kittlegraphy's efforts will succeed. But I wouldn't count on anything.

As for Dwayne's, sending Kodachrome to them for processing would be futile now Unfortunately it's much too late.
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  #24  
Old 01-14-2011, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by d235j View Post
It would probably be best to save the rolls and freeze them; perhaps Kittlegraphy's efforts will succeed. But I wouldn't count on anything.
I'm not a Photo Engineer<tm> by any means, but I'm wondering if this is possible with Kodachrome?

On "another network" they are talking about a kind of bizarre process where substantive chromogenic colo(u)r film is processed into B&W negatives. Yeah, very possible with about anything.

"But wait! There's more!"

Then, even years after this is done, the negatives are bleached in a rehalogenating bleach, then put through a kind of C41 color developer process and voila! Color!

I'm wondering if something similar is possible with Kodachrome?

Yes, yes, yes, I know that the C41 colo(u)r developer will not work on Kodachrome. However, I'm wondering if Kodachrome which is processed into B&W negatives could be bleached and then put through the later stages of the K14 process to produce color images.

That way, somebody who has old Kodachrome could shoot it and develop it to B&W before it goes bad, then if and when somebody resurrects K14 processing, finish the job.

Any thoughts on this?
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  #25  
Old 01-14-2011, 03:20 PM
RichardE RichardE is offline
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Interesting speculation.

The first problem might be that, in a normal B&W process, the fixer will have removed the unexposed and undeveloped silver halide to leave the developed silver which forms the negative image. For a reversal process, B&W or colour, this remaining halide is needed and used in the second development(s) in forming the positive image, whether that be metallic silver for B&W or dye image for colour. There seems no obvious way round that, particularly also given that there are no colour couplers in a Kodachrome emulsion. (Unlike the bleaching and redevelopment of a C-41 film which has already been processed as B&W, where couplers are still there and the objective is a negative image).

I think that there seems little point now in trying to use and process Kodachrome as a B&W film (unless, of course, it already carries some old exposed images which are worth trying to recover). The only remaining prospect of obtaining colour results from remaining Kodachrome would seem to be something like Kittlegraphy's efforts....I hope this might just work, given perserverence and a lot of good luck, and will follow this with interest, but without holding my breathe.

For serious slide work, I guess that we have to move on now to E6, however reluctantly.

But it's been a fantastic party!

Last edited by RichardE; 01-14-2011 at 03:25 PM.
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  #26  
Old 01-14-2011, 04:53 PM
sdkodachrome sdkodachrome is offline
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Ok, here's a similar but completely different technical speculation question.

If I understand it correctly, Kodachrome is essentially a three-layer B&W film, with each layer sensitive to a different color.

Does it remain as three layers if you process it B&W?

If so, is there any way of "separating" the layers (whether by physical separation or by somehow rephotographing/scanning just one layer at a time somehow by focusing at different "depths"), then once turned into digital form, do "digital dye coupling" to give each layer back its intended color, and then merge the three layers digitally back together again?

Like, for example (a ridiculous expensive example, to be sure, but just to illustrate): Could those types of Xrayish devices which produce 3D scans of the human body be used to produce a 3D scan of a B&W developed Kodachrome slide, and with enough processing could the 3D image pull apart the three layers?

(Though why we are discussing possible technologies for reprocessing of B&W Kodachrome into color inside a thread about eBay sellers, I'm not sure! )
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  #27  
Old 01-15-2011, 01:54 AM
RichardE RichardE is offline
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Quote:
=sdkodachrome;6628
If I understand it correctly, Kodachrome is essentially a three-layer B&W film, with each layer sensitive to a different color.

Does it remain as three layers if you process it B&W?

If so, is there any way of "separating" the layers (whether by physical separation or by somehow rephotographing/scanning just one layer at a time somehow by focusing at different "depths"), then .......)
--------------------------------------------

Yes, the various layers in any film should remain separate after processing, so a Kodachrome processed as B&W will retain a kind of "colour information" in the three layers.

So it should, in theory at least, be possible to recover this by some form of separation or scanning, but no doubt needing some very advanced physics and equipment. Really a "pipedream" for all practical purposes, though

Last edited by RichardE; 01-15-2011 at 03:46 AM.
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  #28  
Old 01-15-2011, 10:11 AM
r_s r_s is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdkodachrome View Post
Ok, here's a similar but completely different technical speculation question.

If I understand it correctly, Kodachrome is essentially a three-layer B&W film, with each layer sensitive to a different color.

Does it remain as three layers if you process it B&W?

If so, is there any way of "separating" the layers (whether by physical separation or by somehow rephotographing/scanning just one layer at a time somehow by focusing at different "depths"), then once turned into digital form, do "digital dye coupling" to give each layer back its intended color, and then merge the three layers digitally back together again?

Like, for example (a ridiculous expensive example, to be sure, but just to illustrate): Could those types of Xrayish devices which produce 3D scans of the human body be used to produce a 3D scan of a B&W developed Kodachrome slide, and with enough processing could the 3D image pull apart the three layers?

(Though why we are discussing possible technologies for reprocessing of B&W Kodachrome into color inside a thread about eBay sellers, I'm not sure! )
The B&W/bleach/redevelop-to-color gambit that works for C41 and E6 films can NOT work for Kodachrome, for one simple reason: there are no color couplers embedded in the emulsion with Kodachrome.

Selective redevelopment is likewise impossible because it depends upon the yellow filter being converted to a black layer to protect the middle layer during top-layer re-exposure (during the K14 process).

Still, there remain two possible ways of extracting a color image from a B&W-processed Kodachrome.

One way would be to use a variation on the original Kodachrome process, in which the entire film was first developed to a (reversal) cyan image (all three layers a cyan dye positive), and then, subjected to a critically-timed dye-bleach, so that the dye image of the topmost two layers was bleached away, leaving the bottom layer cyan. The process was repeated, until each layer was developed to the desired color.

This scheme left a lot to be desired (I've never seen any image from that short-lived era that really looked good, or for that matter, looked anything like a Kodachrome).

The other way to get color out of a B&W-developed Kodachrome would be to use a scanner capable of selectively scanning each layer, and then combining the C/M/Y images into a full color image.

The technology to accomplish this already exists, but, is not readily available. The "dry"-process machine originally created by ASF was acquired by Kodak, and then quickly shelved. While the demos of the prototypes were done with C41 film, I understand that the patent filing specifically stated that it could be used with Kodachrome.

This is not a stretch to accept, since the machine worked by selectively scanning each layer as it developed.

Perhaps at some point a "scanner-only" device will hit the retail market, one that scans each layer selectively, at which point not only will it be possible to get full color out of "B&W Kodachrome" but also, incredible restorations of faded, scratched, and otherwise time-abused chromogenic and B&W film (external scratches can be ignored, so long as they don't cut clean through the image layer, and, with color film, no matter how badly a layer has faded, no matter what color it has morphed to, so long as there's any kind of light-modifying molecules at that level, the scanner can read it in, and assign it to the original subtractive primary).
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  #29  
Old 01-15-2011, 10:29 AM
RichardE RichardE is offline
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@ r s = Your reply expands in a little more detail the exact points which I made in my two replies to the original questions.

The idea of the variation on the original Kodachrome process hadn't occured to me.... but my immediate thought is whether the removal of unexposed silver halides by the B&W fixer will leave nothing for any subsequent redevelopment to a cyan dye positive?

Redevelopment of a C41 film can work because you're turning a silver negative image into a negative dye image. You could bleach and redevelop a B&W negative back into a B&W negative, or a B&W positive into a positive. But I don't see that you can get a positive from a negative after the original fixing? If you see what I mean.

Last edited by RichardE; 01-15-2011 at 10:34 AM.
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  #30  
Old 02-15-2011, 06:59 AM
Jasper80 Jasper80 is offline
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Ebay is the great platform at which you can buy or sell any kind of product and think that is why the people are buying Kodachrome on Ebay.
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