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Old 02-01-2012, 08:39 PM
nzoomed nzoomed is offline
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Default E6 Kodachrome???

Would it be possible to produce an E6 version of kodachrome?
I guess thats what kodak call ektachrome.
I would be very interested to know if the dye couplers incorporated into ektachrome are the same as what is used in kodachrome or not.
I actually feel that some of the films fuji make such as provia actually look more like kodachrome than that ektachrome itself.
If Kodak ever released an E6 film that looked close to kodachrome or even better, id be first to use it.
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Old 02-02-2012, 05:36 AM
RichardE RichardE is offline
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In short, No.

Kodachrome could hardly be more different to E6...with Kodachrome, the couplers are in the developers, hence the need for the complex process which includes three developing baths. The chemicals/couplers are unique, some no longer made, and, in part, this different dye set is what gives Kodachrome its unique qualities and appeal (and the great difficulty in any hope of resurrecting the processing or the film itself).

With E6, the couplers are in the layers of emulsion, hence a much simpler processing system. It is also easier to fine-tune different films, by variations in speed, contrast, and other characteristics without altering the process requirements. This might enable a film to be made which was very similar to Kodachrome (Kodak suggest E100G), but I very much doubt that an exact match would ever be possible.
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Old 02-02-2012, 04:32 PM
matt8314 matt8314 is offline
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Some have said that Rollei Digibase CR200 comes closer to Kodachrome than any other E6 film. This may be true if it wasn't for its rather intense yellowish cast. Maybe if you could find a filter that could counteract this.
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Old 02-02-2012, 05:05 PM
nzoomed nzoomed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardE View Post
In short, No.

Kodachrome could hardly be more different to E6...with Kodachrome, the couplers are in the developers, hence the need for the complex process which includes three developing baths. The chemicals/couplers are unique, some no longer made, and, in part, this different dye set is what gives Kodachrome its unique qualities and appeal (and the great difficulty in any hope of resurrecting the processing or the film itself).

With E6, the couplers are in the layers of emulsion, hence a much simpler processing system. It is also easier to fine-tune different films, by variations in speed, contrast, and other characteristics without altering the process requirements. This might enable a film to be made which was very similar to Kodachrome (Kodak suggest E100G), but I very much doubt that an exact match would ever be possible.

thats correct, but im interested to know how similar the couplers used in the kodachrome developers are to the couplers currently incorporated in ektachrome and other E6 films, its quite obvious that all E6 films are different in colour.
I know the reds etc come out more vividly in kodachrome, and its said thats because the dyes are added during processing, i can only assume this is because more dye is added to the film in the process or unless the chemicals are a different nature.
Either way, i guess kodak would have experimented long ago in replicating the colours while developing their line of E6 films.
I guess the concentrations of the couplers that are incorporated into the film have a big bearing on how it comes out.
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Old 02-03-2012, 05:51 AM
RichardE RichardE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nzoomed View Post
thats correct, but im interested to know how similar the couplers used in the kodachrome developers are to the couplers currently incorporated in ektachrome and other E6 films, its quite obvious that all E6 films are different in colour.
I know the reds etc come out more vividly in kodachrome, and its said thats because the dyes are added during processing, i can only assume this is because more dye is added to the film in the process or unless the chemicals are a different nature.
Either way, i guess kodak would have experimented long ago in replicating the colours while developing their line of E6 films.
I guess the concentrations of the couplers that are incorporated into the film have a big bearing on how it comes out.
From my (very) limited knowledge of organic chemistry from the distant past,
I would expect that the two sets of couplers and chemicals are significantly different. Also, I don't think that the reputation of vivid colors in Kodachrome is quite as simple as more dye being added. (Think of the difference in Velvia and Astia, yet the E6 processing is exactly the same?)

The different between K-14 and E-6 is mainly down to the dye sets used. An analogy might be an artist who paints two "identical" pictures, each with a box of paints from a different manufacturer. However skilled he/she was, the pictures would be unlikely to be exactly the same, since each manufacturer could have used different pigments and chemicals in making their products, even if the names on the tubes of colour were identical.
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Old 02-03-2012, 09:22 AM
sdkodachrome sdkodachrome is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nzoomed View Post
I actually feel that some of the films fuji make such as provia actually look more like kodachrome than that ektachrome itself.
If Kodak ever released an E6 film that looked close to kodachrome or even better, id be first to use it.
I'm confused. Which Ektachrome are you comparing to which Kodachrome?

E100G looks different than E100VS.

Kodachrome 64 looked different than Kodachrome 200 than Kodachrome 25.

The #1 difference I see between Kodachrome 64 and E100G (see the comparison shots I posted in another thread about a year ago) is that E100G was way more exposure latitude:

http://www.kodachromeproject.com/for...read.php?t=742

I suspect that's true of all modern E6 films. So the first thing you'd have to do to "mimic" Kodachrome is take away all the exposure latitude! That alone would probably make the film unmarketable.

But you can do it yourself!

If you want less exposure latitude, either increase contrast digitally after scanning (I've gotten E100G to look a lot closer to Kodachrome's "pop" that way on some midday shots that looked "flat" before such post-processing!), or push-process an E6 film (pushing typically increases contrast, though it does have other side effects).
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Old 02-03-2012, 05:04 PM
matt8314 matt8314 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nzoomed View Post
Either way, i guess kodak would have experimented long ago in replicating the colours while developing their line of E6 films.
That is, if it was ever Kodak's intention for their Ektachromes to look like Kodachrome.
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Old 02-03-2012, 05:26 PM
wlodekmj wlodekmj is offline
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Default Rollei Digibase CR200 like Kodachrome?

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt8314 View Post
Some have said that Rollei Digibase CR200 comes closer to Kodachrome than any other E6 film. This may be true if it wasn't for its rather intense yellowish cast. Maybe if you could find a filter that could counteract this.
I too have been dismayed by the intense yellowish cast of Digibase CR200, when testing it as a replacement for Kodachrome. Yet in past years people seemed very happy with it, calling it "warm", not "yellow". So what has happened? Is the strong yellow cast a recent, er, development? Have Agfa-Gevaert, who make it, changed the formulation? Have Maco, who package it as Digibase, lately been using a master roll from Agfa-Gevaert that happens to have a particularly strong cast? Does anyone know?

Maybe we should move this to a new thread.
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Old 02-03-2012, 06:20 PM
RichardE RichardE is offline
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Isn't Digibase originally produced as an aerial photography film. In which case, might the colour rendering be adjusted in some way to overcome blue casts?
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  #10  
Old 02-03-2012, 06:23 PM
RichardE RichardE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt8314 View Post
That is, if it was ever Kodak's intention for their Ektachromes to look like Kodachrome.
I've read that, at one time, the colour rendering of Kodak's films (at least, the negative ones) were adjusted to suit the different preferences of customers in the various markets or areas of the world where the films were sold?
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